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June 02, 2006


I don't know what to call myself anymore.

Don't tempt me.

You're not Mark Bunster of the Portland Fire Bureau, are you?


Terry - Good question regarding Leftyblogs. Jack Bog's Blog was also one of 61 blogs being aggregated by the PNW Topic Hotlist ( until now. No longer. I have dropped it.

I like how you seek purity in your lefty bloggers. Must accept all government as good regardless of what it embezzles or if it lies to you. No waste can be assumed in our government or even discussed. If there is a bad government decision - hey - attack a politician's character because the bureacracy does no wrong.

Its funny how a nationally reknowned tax attorney starts asking the basic questions about whether the general policies and management of Portland make any sense at all and suddenly he's a DINO.

Even funnier, is the reality that its extremely similar like watching the more religous motivated members of my own party when fiscal conservatives start questioning the neo-Con agenda that breaks the bank. They too scream RINO and attempt to squeeze their ideological opponents off the stage.

So anyways, you go ahead and teach Jack Bodanski to stop making sense.

His posts after all only get in the way of pretending Portland actually is well managed, Smartgrowth is accomplishing the goals it pretends to, and that the billionaires and uber-millionairs building subsidized condos do it because they care about your values.

Portland is getting fleeced, he (Jack Bog) knows it, and you shouldn't assume that he's checking his liberalism at the door to mention it. He's doing you a favor but you would rather shoot the harbinger of political issues to come.

As for Torrid Joe, So what? I don't know what the issue is, but from what I know Mr. Bodanski is extremely easy going. There must have been some serious escalation up to his outing of Torrid Joe.

As for why I personally am anonymous. I stay anonymous so the ideas get attacked instead of the person. I did it originally out of affection for the pre-Revolutionary war phampleteers like Adams and Hamilton. I also never expected blogging to pay back so much attention so I'm glad I've stayed anonymous. It much more fun to keep a hobby as opposed to a reputation.

We know Jack only slightly, but based on what we know, we have to join the argument that "hissy fit" simply doesn't equate. We don't know what's going on with the "Torrid" affair either [although we've been the target of TJ's mal mots from time to time, as well], but let's just say that it's evident that some line has been crossed. It's fair game as the owner of a blog to cry foul; any of us might do the same, and would reserve the right to call them as we seem them without being second guessed.

More troubling, though, and the point of this response, is the notion of lefty purity, that is, that there is one and only one idea of what it means to be left of center [liberal, progressive, choose your own adjective], and that those who stray from the dogma of the day are to be avoided -- de-listed, even.

How petty.

Isn't that why we're never in charge?

I'd say the hissyfit term completely fits, and it doesn't surprise me that his pack of old boy network bloggers are here supporting him. Whatever.

crying foul is fine, Pablo. Taking charge of one's own blog is fine. As you say, however, a line was crossed. Attempting to threaten and intimidate someone by making public personal information clearly intended to largely remain personal, is a cowardly act that goes against all understood rules of net etiquette. Does Jack really want to be considered in the same ugly terms as Michelle Malkin, who did largely the same thing as he, out of the same sense of intimidation and payback?

I think the reason people quetion Jack's political credentials is precisely because this kind of childish pettiness is much more the hallmark of the right blogosphere (cf Malkin, et al).

Jack Bogdanski, easygoing. Now THAT'S a good one.

I only read Jack's blog occasionally, but he writes from a TENURED position, which considering Maslow's hierarchy is a slight step above being a data analyist for the Portland fire department, but only slight.

Anyway, I can't keep track of who's who on Jack's blog. Clearly there are traffic and trolls, but that's the territory. Have more specific content (like my blog) and both traffic and trolls go away. So it's a trade off Jack has made and cultivates. So crocodile tears.

What I was disturbed by was the outing. Of course in the post-Bush world privacy is just an illusion. But Jack's action was low - Lars Larson low. And that's low.

So I choose too. And I'll choose to take a long vacation from reading Jack's blog.

Having met him and being exposed to his real professional reputation at Lewis and Clark's lawschool he is extremely easy going and a pleasure to know.

Jack Bog is consistently expressed as the only man alive capable of making Tax Law enjoyable as a course in itself. He definitely has some rock-star appeal in his personality and thats why I think his blog has really taken off. He also is an extremely hard working tenured professor and publishes updates to a text book he works on consistently and teaches a full course-load. The guy is extremely hard working in his professional life.

So sorry Torrid, you kinda can be a jerk as you post. Something tells me your not taking ownership for your own deeds and thats what lead to this. (oh yeah - and are we paying you to blog?)

As for Pablo's comment that libs's aren't in charge - guess what, You are in charge of everything in Oregon. Funny though, there is never enough money and never any real success. Just the mantra of service based budgeting. Like a televagalist - whithout more taxes we can't do any good. Don't let the good deeds stop. All the while all by-standers with common sense can see billionairs receiving huge corporate welfare contributions (at the expense of schools) and a state management system that is hamstringing even the most able of government employee. In short - reform is needed (sorry but that rant came out of no-where).

Worldwide Pablo--

"Lefty purity" doesn't have anything to do with it. Jack consistently mangles facts, and has a habit of banning those who challenge him on it.

I enjoy a good debate -- vive la difference, no? -- but if there's any "purity" here, it's Jack shutting out opposing points of view, or more precisely, those who challenge his misstatement of facts. Jack's basically not interested in having commenters with more of an analytical capacity of say, Ron Ledbury.

Jack supported one candidate in the primary, I supported another. The difference is that Jack basically had a habit of making shit up to fit his world view and political objective.

I already did take responsibility for my deeds. If he finds me too obnoxious, he can block communication from me, as he has done. He's always welcome at LO, even now, because I think that's the smart, open, engaged policy to have. He's welcome to challenge our assumptions and conclusions--it's interesting that he doesn't grant others that courtesy in his own space.

I've said and continued to say that he owns his space, and can control it as he likes. What he did was far beyond that, seeking retribution and intimidation by trying to frighten me into leaving his fact-addled blog alone.

Jack Bog's policy of chilling the debate is no different thatn BlueOregon's which as well has barred many polite but disagreeable individuals from contributing simply because they attempted to correct facts or take a counter point.

Big deal, my guess is that it takes a person of strong character to not start barring the brick throwers when a blog site starts breaking the 1000 hit a day category or exceeds 75 comments in a thread. Build more traffic to your site by in depth analysis and pure personality, then you can show yourself the better man. Jack has done a good job and its his perogative (as is BlueOregons').

I have a couple of lingering questions:

-TJ, what precisely did you say to raise Jack's ire? Did you swear at him? Call him names? Insult him? Or did you merely challenge some of his opinions? I suspect the latter is what actually transpired.

-Is there such a thing as "blogging etiquette"? And if there is, where do I find a copy of it? I'm in the dark here. I try to avoid "four letter" words, other than "fool" and the occasional "damn". In other words, I don't write the way I talk. Maybe I should loosen up a bit. Whattaya think?

By the way, Jack. You can call me anything you like. Just be sure to back it up with something I've actually written.

DarePDX! writes: Jack Bog's policy of chilling the debate is no different thatn BlueOregon's which as well has barred many polite but disagreeable individuals from contributing simply because they attempted to correct facts or take a counter point.

What a crock. People can check out my most recent post on global warming and decided for themselves if I'm blocking the semi-literate trollerati masses.

I've been barred by Blue Oregon as have several other conservatives I know. Why, it wasn't for name calling, personal attacks, or cursing.

Instead it was for arguing a contradictory opinion. It might also be for linking to BlueOregon and doing my own counter point post over something there that I think is a relevant example of what seperates the two parties.

If I try to comment on BlueOregon it won't allow it. Not only is my name forbidden I'm supposing my IP is as well. I can post comments under psuedonames at wi-fi hot spots but not from home. I am not alone with this.

And Charlie - global warming is theory. You have alot of consensus around it but to call it a fact is really breaking far and away from what science really is. Regardless of your feelings about the environment you shouldn't put words in scientists mouths. Equally as argued evolution isn't fact either.

You have good enough arguments on what conclusion the data leads to without needing to argue about fact. No one buys ExxonMobil's arguments anyways.

NOTE: This comment posted here because of my 86'd status at BlueOregon.

Dare, I can't recall the apparently numerous times Kari has posted the names and employment of BlueOregon's trolls. Can you remind me of who and when?

What I said to Jack that sent him over the edge:
"Jack, nice false demonization of the Buckman neighborhood. The east side of the area--that part from 12th to 28th--is where the people live, and that area's crime is LOWER than the neighborhood average across the City."

It was followed by a reply from him to the effect that he knew, because he used to live there. I replied:
"so sorry to rely on factual material, rather than the anecdotal musings of someone who USED to live there."

And that was pretty much that.

In the times I have been there, the closest to an insult I have given is to call him a Johnny Three-Note (Tram, VOE, SoWa), all of them in minor chords.

google netiquette and see what you find, terry.

What the heck is a "BlueOregon's troll"????

the same thing Bojack accused me of being.

Okay it was an inside reference to his previous insult. Got it, thanks

Taking a shot at someone's employment is a pretty low blow and actions reflect character, ie: tell lies-you're a liar, steal-you're a thief. GWB presents an easy-going persona, I leave it to you to go from there.

I don't mind being disagreed with, though I may disagree right back, but I don't block or delete for any reason other than foul language or character assasination (unless it's a public figure and it's a matter of record). My own experience indicates to me that the anonymity of a keyboard can lead otherwise mild people out onto the fringes, that's a risk you take, but there is a place beyond the fringe and it ought to be avoided.

Anonymity does take me out to the fringe. Thats what makes playing with arguments fun. No different than the academic exercise of debate in high school. What I think today vs. tomorrow varies based on arguments, information I know, and the way I see the issue playing out. Blogging has developed my concept of many ideas and allows me to try on arguments. Its rare to have this kind of opportunity and I thank every blogger out there making efforts to argue their opinion with the rest of the world (even though its usually the same 1000 people bopping around on the net).

If you can't keep it in perspective (as long as the attack isn't personal which mine aren't), I don't know if I want you knowing who I am. I know I'm not alone on that either.

Blogs are a back-and-forth of ideas. Rarely would i have the opportunity to simoultaneously argue ideas, thoughts, and perceptions with such a varied mixture of members of both the far left and right politcal spectrums (as I find myself a moderate in the online world of blogging).

If Jack Bog's blog isn't a friendly neighborhood, big deal. There's a whole big world out there of other blogs. Also, his website is alot more welcoming than any other media outlet in Portland that I know of (including BlueOregon).

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